Major Pain: Well that seems very possible.... According to my factory records, we can confirm it was built in at least one factory. Picture to follow later of the Fritz'43.
Dec 4, 2013 12:46:57 GMT 1
Nephilim: Hey icemember. Great to see you back.
Dec 4, 2013 13:25:09 GMT 1
Nephilim: Speaking of Argentina after World War 2 it served as crucial platform where some of Germanys finest aviation engineers continued to develop the wunderwaffe and also the domestic Argentinian jet fighter industry. Its actually quite a good read.
Dec 4, 2013 13:28:36 GMT 1
Joseph_Porta: @major Pain: As you are working on the Nashorn, would a Pz. III/IV be possible as well?
Dec 4, 2013 13:39:41 GMT 1
Major Pain: Nephilim: Yes, I mention Argentina for that reason... it was the number one most desired country to escape to. The Argentine Government's plan was to capitalize on the technology.
Dec 4, 2013 14:12:08 GMT 1
Major Pain: JP: The Model III/IV or '43 'code name' Fritz'43 was an actual test model... I was in error, it used the Panther Hull on a new road wheels based on the PzIV Chassis. The turret was from the PzIV but slightly modified.
Dec 4, 2013 14:14:58 GMT 1
Major Pain: The Panther Turret had not yet been accepted by design, none existed in mid 41. The '43 was based on projected year 1942 release and not the design year (1941), running counter to design at the time.
Dec 4, 2013 14:17:22 GMT 1
Joseph_Porta: Jesus, the Germans were confusing. Would have made it so much easier to focus on a few standardized models instead of all these test versions. But isn't the Fritz you mentioned a different project than the Einheitsfahrgestell III/IV I mentioned?
Dec 4, 2013 14:26:09 GMT 1
Major Pain: The USSR T43 was the benefactor of Fritz's work indirectly, receiving the TODT Suspension design for the III/IV. Call it borrowed. But then so did the Pershing torsion system. The T34 used the Christie.
Dec 4, 2013 14:27:49 GMT 1
Major Pain: No, the Fritz actually began with the PzIII. The PzIV was still on the drawing board. If you study the III/IV, there is hardly any III influence, but mostly IV/V. The reasoning was to get ot a standard production model, which they never achieved.
Dec 4, 2013 14:30:07 GMT 1
Major Pain: The Pz III as you know was the primary battle tank early on due to the numbers... The IV was available but in test models A through D only. The E was an entirely new tank once again.
Dec 4, 2013 14:31:50 GMT 1
Major Pain: It just found its roots in the PzIV-A.
Dec 4, 2013 14:32:18 GMT 1
Major Pain: The Pz III was intend for use against Armor. The Pz IV was intended as Infantry Support. The Model E and onward changed to Armor, mostly coming to best use with the Model F2/G.
Dec 4, 2013 14:34:37 GMT 1
Major Pain: The Pz V Panther was to replace all of them (PzI through IV) as they were destroyed or converted for other uses. The StuG III used the PzIII chassi by design, it was better than the Pz IV for the weaponry and short stunted design.
Dec 4, 2013 14:36:36 GMT 1
Joseph_Porta: I know that the early-war role for the Pz. III and IV. Interesting point though: despite the fact that the Pz. IV was just for infantry support, there were more of them than Pz. IIIs when Germany entered Poland in 1939.
Dec 4, 2013 14:49:51 GMT 1
Joseph_Porta: Even bigger Pz. IV to III ratio in 1938.
Dec 4, 2013 14:50:08 GMT 1
Joseph_Porta: Oh, since I ended up in this military history discussion: I just got an internship at the Centre of Military History at the Danish Defence Academy - so next semester I can work with military history daily instead of having to pick some standard classes.
Dec 4, 2013 14:54:25 GMT 1
Stanenberg: Actually the Pz III wasn't even fully developed in 1939. Germans used only the version A-D which were produced to test different systems. The first real Pz III version was the E which was used in France for the first time
Dec 4, 2013 16:08:08 GMT 1
Major Pain: And you are correct. The two designs were ongoing and conducted simultaneously. The III/IV concept was born from that very issue... an attempt to combine the best of both, but the PzIII was not viewed as a likely platform once the PzV was planned.
Dec 4, 2013 16:57:39 GMT 1