Mat
General
Posts: 1,814
|
Post by Mat on Nov 12, 2015 15:58:49 GMT 1
I agree with Atlas!
|
|
|
Post by ogmodon on Nov 12, 2015 18:21:52 GMT 1
I agree with Mat!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2015 21:00:59 GMT 1
|
|
kaoz
General
inter faesces et urinam nascimur
Posts: 1,112
|
Post by kaoz on Nov 13, 2015 0:02:32 GMT 1
- Do we really need food, gasoline and such? We can play Ages of Empires if we want that. Already in BK, what mostly keeps us from fighting, is that resourcing... I hate it when I have to drive a truck to the other side of the map to reload... For me, it's good as it is, I don't want to maintain crop-fields and fuel depots.
- I do like the idea of tank crews, a bit like in Panzers. Also like the concept of towing, repairing, capturing tanks, although not all the time. Some tanks should become destroyed, I think. I don't feel a need to capture all enemy tanks. Not sure if there could be a random factor set for this...
- Concerning infantry, I would like to have a high commander (colonel, general or such) that can act like ambulance and heal soldiers or give them moral in some way (if possible). Have bigger squads (like MP already wants) and have a corporal (with other qualities) added instead of an "officer".
|
|
|
Post by gagarin on Nov 13, 2015 0:12:59 GMT 1
Capture of armored vehicles on the battlefield. This - not realism.
|
|
kaoz
General
inter faesces et urinam nascimur
Posts: 1,112
|
Post by kaoz on Nov 13, 2015 0:15:55 GMT 1
... capture only after they have been shot to HP "1", towed and repaired...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 1:50:34 GMT 1
I have a question. Do you can replace the format of "DDS files" by "GIF files" animated? This question is exclusively for MP, obviously.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 7:32:15 GMT 1
It would be of more realism to add a medic team. Bigger squads is intersting. Boost Morale..maybe put in some Blitz Maedel?
|
|
|
Post by Major Pain on Nov 13, 2015 8:31:35 GMT 1
Naw, .gifs will not work.
I'm not changing the Resource Table, except to migrate it to fit the objects a little better.
Food, Water and Fuel... are out.
Chain of Command is out.
I will make a new level of Command Structure that only serve to coordinate attacks. Squads and Armor led by Sgts or Lts
If you do use the Platoon System, you can add a Captain or Major, basically the same level for gameplay.
If you want a higher officer, it will recognize a Division Officer, Colonel or General.
The 1.xml will show Command Level under Rank.
Rank will be
0 No rank 1 Squad or Armor Commander (Sgt, Lt) 2 Platoon (group of 3 to 5 squads or 3 to 6 tanks) 3 Division (most everything in army)
The actual Rank does not matter and is not required except in Squads and Armor Commanders. The next level up at 2 allows you to group units better for Combined Arms movement or attack.
Thorough Moral is out. This is too complicated without sharing a command structure. A simplified system is still on the table and only affects a single entity as to its own commander... and perhaps fighting history. Testing reveals that rarely do the Squad leaders engage enemy, but stand behind troops as they fight. Once a squad has only the Officer left, they stand helpless and are killed easily. At this point, Moral is useless.
Towing as previously described. The towing function script will allow tow, push, or drag.
Towing uses a hitch.
Push is a push by a vehicle that has enough power to move object.
Drag is the use of a short chain that is added between vehicles.
Drag will be more correct when recovering armor. Towing would include the use of a boom/winch and actually raise the towed end of the vehicle being towed. This is the toughest to work out since the towed vehicle must rise above the terrain. This will be accomplished by adding the towed state to those vehicle animation sets.
Guns have this state... 1.mod is the attack/ready state. 2.mod is the breakdown or set up animations. 3.mod is the towed state.
For dragging, we do not need to add anything to the subject vehicle. The routine computes the center of the front or back of the dragged vehicle and adds the chain from the ARV or tow vehicle. This is a simulation, which does allow a swivel at both hook points on the chain.
Already, within BK1.2, it is possible for a ARV to tow a tank using a hitch. The tank is redefined as a Artillery Gun with the 2.mod serving as the hook and unhook animation, and the 3.mod serving as the towed version. Since we do not have gunners on tanks and SPGs, these are not defined or used. But the Gunner Script is how i accomplish the crew members in GEN II. These are chnaged from the keyword Gunner, to CrewMember. This name works for all vehicles and guns to be towed.
Tanks, SPGs and Artillery Guns all share common commands in the Binary. The missing element on the Tanks and SPGs is only the 2.mod and 3.mod, along with the type change from arm_medium (for example) to art_gun or art_howitzer (for example). The key to artillery weapons being towed is the word 'art" in the <Type>art_gun</Type> assignment in the 1.xml.
All we have to do in GEN II is expand the definition of the <Types> commands, which add towing.
We find another Type of vehicles that allow towing and pushing already in the script. These are the Railroad Cars. Each car has two hitch points... one on the front, one on the rear. Hitch_point_01 is always to the front of the car. The locomotive usually only has the rear Hook Point. But it is the <Type>train_locomotive</Type> that is provided the Script Function to move. These keywords can be manipulated so they reflect any name as the vehicle requires a Type. The primary difference in Trains and other vehicle types is the AIClass which is track, which in this case means Railroad tracks only.
This cannot be compared to vehicles that move on their own tracks. But the keywords tracks or wheels requires the Type to determine the AIClass for the terrain.
So back to Artillery compared to Tanks and SPGs. We might think that the Keyword AIClass Tracks would not work for Armor and SPGs. We have an example which shows this to be false.
All we have to do is look at the Karl the Great. We find the <Type>art_super</Type> and <AIClass>track</AIClass> .
Ok, another thought that might be on some of your minds. Can a artillery gun move without being pushed by the gunners. Yes, of course. The gunners are only there for EYE_CANDY, cleverly located around the gun to make it appear they are pushing. So a tank defined as a <Type>art_super</Type> , with the <AIClass>track</AIClass> will function exactly like a tank on every command.
Only one function requires further testing, and that is riders on the tank or SPG.
But all other Functions that a tank can perform, a gun can also perform.
The Karl the Great is not a towed gun, but moves under its own motorization. The speed is very slow set at 9.21 with a passibility of 1, which means its progress has to be well planned for the route since the passibility of 1 is subject to every terrain type minimums.
Let's compare this to the 76mm_M1A1_USA
We find the speed is 2.21, which is very slow, and might be typical of a gunners pushing the gun along. Like I said, the Gunners are only eye candy, and not required.
So if we define the Sherman to a <Type>art_gun</Type> with <AIClass>track</AIClass> , we indeed also find we can define all of the command functions for the tank.
Normal Tank Commands (Sherman M4A3) <Type>arm_medium</Type> <AIClass>track</AIClass>
<Commands Size="51"> <BitArray> <item data="15"/><----MOVE/ATTACK UNIT/ATTACK OBJECT <item data="67"/> <---ROTATE/STOP/AMBUSH <item data="0"/><---NO DATA <item data="0"/><---NO DATA <item data="128"/><----FOLLOW <item data="32"/> <---ENTRENCH SELF <item data="4"/><---STAND GROUND </BitArray> </Commands>
<Exposures Size="0"> <BitArray/> </Exposures>
Normal Artillery Commands (76mm_M1A1) <Type>art_gun</Type> <AIClass>wheel</AIClass>
<Commands Size="46"> <BitArray> <item data="135"/><----Add LEAVE <item data="67"/><---SAME <item data="6"/><-------Install and Uninstall <item data="0"/><---NO DATA <item data="0"/><---NO DATA <item data="32"/><---ENTRENCH SELF </BitArray> </Commands>
<Exposures Size="32"> <BitArray> <item data="0"/> <item data="0"/> <item data="0"/> <item data="146"/><-----WHOA! WHAT IS THIS? <item data="0"/> </BitArray> </Exposures>
Compare the two Binaries. There is not too much difference in the two. But we do find one thing that is very different. the Exposure Size = 32.
Quick, anyone know what that means?
This is the trigger that allows the unit to be captured. Wow! But for it to work, we must also set the BitArray within that particular Binary. There are three exact Commands that make this function, that total 146 on the 4th Binary (Octal). You will not find any documentation on any of these except one, "Take Artillery (CAR)", which is the last value for the Binary, which equals 128.
We find we are a value of 18 short, so there is something else at work here. We know that the 2nd Location within the Binary is a value of 2. We also know the 5th Location in the Binary is a value of 16. So these are the missing 18 we need. These two values and locations do not have any documentation that you can find.... except within the code itself. The 2 means the crew must be absent for capture. The 16 means the weapon turns neutral, if crew is absent. Both of these are required or the gun cannot be captured or become neutral. Do you see the way this works?
So let's build our Hybrid Tank for BK1.2.
HYBRID Tank Commands (Sherman M4A3)
<Type>art_super</Type> <AIClass>track</AIClass>
<Commands Size="51"> <BitArray> <item data="135"/><----MOVE/ATTACK UNIT/ATTACK OBJECT/LEAVE <item data="67"/><---ROTATE/STOP/AMBUSH <item data="0"/><---NO DATA <item data="0"/><---NO DATA <item data="128"/><----FOLLOW <item data="32"/><---ENTRENCH SELF <item data="4"/><---STAND GROUND </BitArray> </Commands>
<Exposures Size="32"> <BitArray> <item data="0"/> <item data="0"/> <item data="0"/> <item data="146"/><-----Becomes Neutral if Crew Missing, and can be Captured. <item data="0"/> </BitArray> </Exposures>
Now if we do not include the Exposures Size as above, we can change the outcome of the Tank being captured or becoming neutral. For BK1.2, the outcome is with issues if we try to capture the tank. First of all, we need to assign Gunners... but we are not using them in our example. So this means we cannot capture the tank. Matter of fact, we cannot take back possession of our own tank, for the same reason. So we either have to not use the Exposure Code, or do something else.
The Something else is adding the crew, in place of the gunners. So this is the part where the crew becomes important. Once we redefine the Gunners as CrewMembers, other options become possible. One command that the Code Writers also did not include was the command to Dismount Gun, or where the Gunners can be removed from a Gun. Well the command is in the Binary Code, but not documented... We find this in the 4th Octal, 7th Location: Abandon_Gun. So here is the other code that can also work for Dismounting vehicles.
In GEN II, we only have to expand the definitions of the Command Binaries where tanks can take on new commands, and crews. All of the Binary Commands are already in our game, we only have to change a few things around to add several new things. Other aspects that I am working on require some code changes... these are tougher to work out, and require patience, bit my own, and yours.
One of these is catching the Unit before it reached HP=0. This is a slight change in the code where a units becomes destroyed. But as I have suggested before, there must be a level where tanks or other vehicles can no longer be repaired. If the tank has HP=1, obviously we are not going to tow it back for repair. But if the tank is HP=40, we might be able to repair it. The crew dismounted or is killed before or at this point. The Tank can be towed or dragged... by either side since the ownership is up for grabs.
Ok, not realistic, but I argue that it did happen many times during the war. The Germans made use of enemy equipment because they always had a shortage of Mounted Guns (SPGs). The US did not make use of that much, but if the PzIV was still armed, they would use what life it gave them then dump it. Regular Troops might do this for a short time until ammo or fuel was out. Finland was most likely the most prolific bunch of scavengers ever known, since they would use anything and everything they could capture.
The Capture Option does not have to be included if most of you do not want it. But the reason to not let HP drop to 0 should be clear. If you need to move something out of your way... you can push it or drag it. This is assuming that wrecks do not disappear. I'm in the court that wrecks add to the battlefield and can be an advantage or disadvantage to either side.
Example: Let think about a mission where you encounter enemy tanks near a bridge... which might be the only crossing. You take out the tanks, but most of your army will not arrive for ten minutes. Your orders are to slow the enemy down so you can prepare defensive positions. Drag a couple of wrecked tanks on to the bridge and close the only crossing, then try to stop the enemy while they try to open the route as you are still trying to dig in. The AI will certainly try to drag the disabled tanks out of the way to form an attack against you. You might not want to blow the bridge right now, thinking you can quickly cross after the enemy counterattack is over. And it does not even have to be on a bridge... it can be any kind of a choke position or perhaps on roads between buildings.
(But I am working on a way for Tanks and tracked vehicles to damage buildings by running into them and drive over building debris... these are dead spaces when the buildings are destroyed... why are these not crossable?)
So this leaves the increase in the number of Damage States for both buildings and 3D models. It might be too far reaching to add to the number of skins or unique tanks within a folder... but the option is there. But thought into what this might lead to should be discussed. This goes to the theory of Tank Squads and Platoons, and back to the Chain of Command, but watered down to two leaders, Tank or Squad commanders and Platoon leaders.
Squads usually have a single leader to form around. But in my Squads I am using a SGT for Squad leader and a Corporal for the Asst Squad Leader, or the equivalent ranks based on nation.. The problem is they carry equal weight and either can be used to form around. Even with some fancy Formation Grouping, either leader can be used by the rest of the squad for their officer to form around. If one is killed, the other is still there and directing the attack, defense or whatever is going on. But if both are killed, the squad loses its ability to form at all and is shocked. So perhaps I will make a slight adjustment within these squads where the Asst has Rank 1, and the Leader has Rank 1.5. or .5 and 1. This is only to give some kind of sense of command to the smallest commands- Squads or Crews.
What say you guys?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 12:29:38 GMT 1
Naw, .gifs will not work. What say you guys? A pity. It would have been interesting to see the tracks in motion when the vehicle is moving over the ground and when a static image is stopped.
|
|
|
Post by gagarin on Nov 13, 2015 12:34:36 GMT 1
Wittmann, plus give you for the smile!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 12:49:58 GMT 1
Thanks Gagarin. Anything improve realism. We should note that the graphical look and feel of a game, you can attract more. My intention is to help.
|
|
|
Post by gagarin on Nov 13, 2015 12:57:34 GMT 1
For rotating wheel responds file "gamett.dll". But the models need to be relevant locators.
|
|
|
Post by Major Pain on Nov 13, 2015 14:33:25 GMT 1
Yes... I will likely have Rotating Wheels and Propellers.
Tracks are another animal... since they must follow an oblique or somewhat elongated circle pattern...
The Best that I believe could be done is to have certain parts of the Tracks appear to move; Top and Bottom. This could be performed by Rotating the Wheels, but moving the track parts back and forth very slightly to make it appear to move. The movement would have to be based on where the wheels are in relation to the track parts. Then the parts must only flip or move when the tank is moving. I'll need to test this to be certain. But there is no way to make a track follow the pattern around the road-wheels, Idler and Sprocket. We can only use a single Axis for each Road Wheel pair... Which is usually the exact center of the wheel hub. On a multiple Wheel unit like a tank, there is not a way to set a single axis to make the tracks follow a pattern.
Well I said there is no way... I should state within a MAYA BK Model... the game Engine just will not support it. But within MAYA itself, it is possible to make a track follow preset pattern. It requires some preset calculations using an oblique pattern. While it is not exact on most cases... it is very close. The problem is in the curved areas. More recent MAYA and 3D MAX do this much better.
Discussion can continue...
|
|
atlas555
General
I know not what course others may take. As for me, give me liberty or give me death.
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by atlas555 on Nov 13, 2015 17:17:54 GMT 1
Major, With these enhancements, will new maps have to be made or can these work within existing maps? Will it be released as a mod that can activated\not activated-or entire new game? I guess we are talking about a whole new AI or will it be adapted into the Stalingrad AI. Will this new AI crash on old maps?
|
|