Still playing BK?

[6sic6]

In last month I installed BK after ~2 years, I played GZM 7.77 mostly but I gotten tired by it, its a good mod but there are some serius issues with it (some maps are great, other are ... I dont know too use diffrent word retarded, you can't simple lose any armor unit in whole mission if you want to finish it, and when you had to use @win( 0 ) you lose interest quite fast, frontal armor of early Panzer IV is 15 while p35(t) has about 30 etc & etc ... wtf?? XD). Its gingantic mod so I forgive some issues but still, It could be better.

Manilla map by Ocelo is great, really enjoyed that one.

Now in my hand I hold Stalingrad that I bought for 1.5 € and I will try to play both campaings with some mods


What are you playing right now?

Share your opinions, mods etc ...

[Major Pain]

I guess I am a die hard.   I have BH & RT along with the Grey Tigers and PW.   Past that, I look for missions that might use custom models; included in the MOD.

The maps that I have developed over the years are always getting a updated, due to my new models.  I have only released 4 or 5 maps in 10 years, and those were long ago.  So not a big deal that affects anyone else.  I'd rather play someones map than my own.  Part of the new and unknown that I enjoy.  But I also would rather play missions that are historically correct, which is why I am constantly building models to cover the boundaries.

I suppose as far as being a player, I am rather dull.   So it may be better that I spend most of my time building than playing.  

If the members in the community would get busy and build maps, rather than large chapters and mods, the interest would increase overnight.  MODS are nice but they take a very long time to produce and can be frustrating.  Ask several of the guys that have done it.  

One of the best Chapter guys to ever walk among us is Louis XIV... but he has been busy with real life lately.  If he had the maps that you guys supplied, he would be a happy camper making chapters that flow right along.    He used many of my models in the MOD pack rather than requiring the player to have every model or requiring a specific mod to be installed.  There are simply too many to keep track of... and many are redundant in regard to models and skins.  That is exactly why I have not built a huge mod from my models... the list keeps growing...   Louis, hope you get back here soon, man...  

If I were to offer advice... and I usually don't... I'd suggest to the members to build maps based on an event or battle.  Don't over think it, but do some research.  Use correct models (tanks, trucks, guns, etc.) and keep the scale reasonable in regard to the battlefield.  have clear objectives that have a linear course and clear cut conclusion.  It's fine to make things tough, but keep goals reachable.  Large Battles might be better served in smaller pieces, or specific fronts.  So much for me giving advice.... now you know why I don't...

I'll make models.  They need a place to work, so you guys build maps...


Thanks for opening the door with this question...

MP

[6sic6]

I agree with you, As you know I was working on JNA mod, and it really would be grand-scale mod, I changed many things, like units range, firepower etc. I put hours and hours of work into that (remember that CSLA what was primary base for JNA had really unique fight system where infantry was cannon meat), but hard drive problems, problems in real life were out of my control. Sadly ...

Also there is Vampire mod, I was sitting in my room a couple days ago and thinking, that mod was really catchy for eye, maybe I could do that sci-fi chapter about germans on west front with Infrarot-Scheinwerfer units desperately trying night counter-attacks on allied positions in cover of night, but who would play it, 10, 20 people? :/

As mapper, I only made one good and big map (16X16), and It was for CSLA 1.1, I made a couple for vanilla BK and good old mods and they are not worth mentioning (there are nothing special) because my script skills aren't good enough (my own opinion).

[tedi88]

Well as far as I am concerned i'm still playing it regularly (at least once a week). Also i still keep saves from my old playthroughs so that i can go back to a particular mission and play it again. In fact it has become a type of obsession, cause i changed three PCs since i started playing it and i always keep&transfer the saves.

Now regarding the mods/chapters, recently i've played a lot of GZM (cause i'm an infantry fanatic), but the favorite is still Heimatfront as mod and Ocelos work (NAM, GPW, etc).

Also as side note by far hardest thing to obtain for BK collection was Stalingrad and the most buy was Mission Barbarossa (I've got it in another country by pure chance).

[6sic6]

I didn't play World War I
But mostly other commercial mods/ or BK engine game I had gotten chance to play but It would not be appropriate to say how I got them, TDA Ice Crusade is one of most interesting.

www.total-mission.de/ Brendel is still making new games?

[tedi88]

Yup afaik Brendel is still producing, i played a couple of their products with translations done by Leon (i think), there are some nice maps, but mostly i didn't like it. 

[6sic6]

Played Blitzkrieg Addon Blitzkrieg Veteranen, useless commercial mod, for me maps/scripts are below BK vanilla standard, and his products are so pricelly :/
25 euros for commercial mod of game older than 10 years, good luck with that

[Major Pain]

Speaking from my player perspective, most of the add-ons that I had looked at were sub-standard for the money involved.  I had opportunity to borrow before I invested, and decided that I already had the best platform to build on; Rolling Thunder.  I know some believe Stalingrad was superior, so I will not argue over anyone's opinion.  

Over the years, I looked for missions that fit my interests.  I suppose most of us do that.  I like chapters and campaigns, but there are few out there.  So I built my own as I found maps that I could add.  

I like the evolving nature that has been incorporated into the game, meaning... units get better as they get experience.   But I do not like the ability to pick which tanks and guns I want.  That was not really the way it was and seems to run around the historical issue.   If I know that in the next mission I'm facing some huge artillery, why should I be able to grab a bunch of Priests.  If I am locked into what I have, then I have to make do.  So as the chapter progresses, and new core units are introduced, I have to use what I am provided.  From the design aspect, I can make any unit whatever I need it to be,  and not lose experience between maps... unless it gets toasted.  Sometimes the reinforcements are not what you want, but you have to do the best you can with them.  

I also like maps that use random functions to control the enemy movement.  Most of my own maps have this built in.  Since I made the damn map, I know how to trigger events... which takes away the factor of the unknown.  If I move here or take this location, then I can expect this reaction... and so on.   By using arrays and sequential Script IDs along with Map Locations numbered rather than named, you can build some smart maps and push the AI to the limit.  But these maps are time consuming to build and can be challenging after you forget what the hell you put in there.

I built a map named Ozerki about 3 or 4 years ago.  It was based on the first day at the Northern Salient at Kursk.  The player was German.  The only thing you had to do as General Model was cross a minefield, take a bridge, over-run a few defensive trenches and take three towns.  Sounds easy...   Well about 3 minutes into the mission you find yourself absolutely bombarded by Russian Guns.   Your primary armor has not even arrived yet and your infantry is scrambling to take cover with limited cover and ground.  The arrival of your armor begins as your first units begin to clear the minefield under fire.  The way the map works is depending on which mines you remove, specific armor arrives.  The mines are removed by moving a mine tank into the minefield.  When it blows up, all the closest mines blow up.  So you could clear a path pretty quick.  The trick though was you only received 5 mine tanks so they had to count.

Engineers can not be used to clear mines since they would be under artillery and small arms fire.  You only have one engineering truck in the first part of the game.  As soon as your first armor unit passes through the mine field, Russian Armor goes on the move against one of your weak sides.  I based the mission mostly on historical events.   What you find about halfway through is your Jagdpanzers have become trapped in another minefield and your Panzers and Grenadiers supply line has been cutoff by Russian Armor and infantry.   Then the mission objectives change and you have fight and retreat to lines you took earlier in the mission and wait for delayed armor to arrive.  You also have to use your engineers to recover your Jagdpanzers at the same time. Takes about 4 hours to play it and win.  You can lose anywhere and anytime if you lose General Model or more than 12 Panzers.

As we all know, day one was the only day the Germans made any measurable gain at Kursk... it all went to hell after that.  I shared the map with a few others, who reported they won after 5 to 10 attempts.  I guess it was a little overkill...

Lua isn't really a tough language to master for your scripts... it just takes planning out what you want to do.  Using arrays simplifies everything from landing Reinforcements to moving units.  You can also store map locations in an array so one function can check for specific units moving into the location.   You can then use a look-up table or random function to enable a reaction from enemy units.  I used a random function in Ozerki so I could not guess what kind of resistance I would meet... it could be anything from light to heavy... it could be one of 20 different response forces...  No two missions ever played the same, although the objectives were the same.  In one mission you might get through 2 objectives before the whole thing changed to new objectives...  others you might get through 3 or 4 depending how how fast you moved.  You never accomplished the original objectives...  but the player does not know that...  It is a mission where the only thing that matters is saving your ass... and armor...

So can anyone build maps like that?

Is anyone using arrays in their scripts?

I really want to know...

[6sic6]

Do you have that map stored anywhere, I would like to give it a try


I like long (hard) and huge battles in BK where you have diffrent tasks (not only clear village A, B, C, take storage facility, take enemy town, mission done), lets take example MK maps made by frosti, they are really good, but your troops are way to small in compare of enemy (you have about 4 stuggs 2,3 panthers/tigers, and if you lose more than 3 tanks it is praticlly game over and you have to load saved game)

I know that in reality german panzers were overrun by allied armor in number but, it is a little too much when you have to attack and destroy about 200 T-34/85 and kill over 1000 enemy soldiers while you have 4 infranty squads that means whole your group has 80 soldiers, and enemy is just waiting to get pwned, not making any counter attack, I dont think situation was like that anywhere near, at least give me a couple of at-guns, mobile artillery (mortars would be fine) and more infantry ...

Yes, one map like that is ok, but every time in every mission, it get boring, some random attacks from enemy and unplanned reinforcment would make some of those 'real long' maps much more enjoyable element to play.

Because this is a game, games should be fun not frustrating battle simulator where you have to do impossible.

Ocelo has nice script in Manilla map, where you cant lose more than 60% of your troops, that is much better solution in my opinion than making almost impossible maps like in GZM where only one or two unit can destroy enemy tanks (and they got them like 15,20)

[Deleted]

I allmost never play the game anymore. All my free gaming time is spend in texturing etc..I like historical Large single mission maps best. Best mods I experienced was Heimatfront, and Barbarossa.
Best map I made whas Oosterbeek Perimeter, sadly as part of the Dutch mod..Maybe I remake it someday and launch it as a single mission. Especially when it gives so many new models covering this Theatre..

[Stanenberg]

I dont like too big and too long maps. You need too much time to finish them and the map gets boring and if its part of a campaign, the "campaign feeling" gets lost. I like unexpierenced enemy counterattacks with combined forces (airforce, tanks, infantry).
Its ok if a map has a size of 20x20 or 30x30 and you have 10 objetives but i dont want to play such maps always.
I HATE maps with tons of units on them. Around 10/20 Tanks is enough for the player (when map is big 20 when map is smaller 10)

I completely agree with 6sic6 opinion about GZM. I also started playing it and i loved the gameplay and the many new units and the good maps i played. But some maps where just impossible and didnt looked very nice, so i played mostly BBs Road to Leningrad campaign when i played GZM.

I also like Mr.Frosts kursk maps but unfortunately i played them all But i discovered Panzermans "korsun Pocket", a MK campaign with 12 maps which is imo absolutely great in spite of the few bugs it has...

greets,
Stanenberg

[soldier110]

Yep, GZM maps are the best. For example: Stalingrad maps by Reks. The best maps, i have seen. So hard maps, i like it very much, i think you will try it. And of course Sevastopol map by ilyaka.

[olaf66]

I'm playing GZM and Mod offikrieg for the multiplayer

[bb]

I still play BK, at least one or two times in a week. My problem is I played almost all good missions and chapters and most of the maps produced on the days after BKP do not called my interest. I'm a quite orthodox player: I like eastern front scenarios or, at least, early war scenarios (1939-1942) and I prefer maps to GZM, PZWF or vanilla mods. Now I'm playing Stanenberg chapter, a very nice work, and that relic called Rossosh by Dmitry M.

As a mapper, I think is hard to make maps today because very few people really plays and the criticism is almost nonexistent. Sometimes I believe the problem is we had a 'overproduction crisis': too much mods, too few players (and the the survivors are too exigent, as myself, who just play maps made to my favorite mods and scenarios). Anyway, as used to say the "Soviet War Miner" in Red Alert 2: "lets keep the war moving".

0:59 for those who wants to remember this quote:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPMDd9-Li9k

[tysk54]

Hello!

I just reinstalled that 10-year old game after being absent since 05/06 (sic!) and it's just awesome!

Even discovered some old skins i made back in the day BKP was still up (was known as Panzerschreck54 / LSN|Tysk)

I am currently playing through the BK I german singleplayer campaign for the second time with some sort of random mods/ Solvang Random Map Mod /CoI / RTV / EXBK and Olmsted's Core Units Mod mixture (everything that works somehow )

Absolutely lovely gameplay and the idea of leveling up core units in such a themes RTS game is just awesome!
I got caught up so much, that i even brought up my copies of Stalingrad, Operation Barbarossa and the Total Challenge Series (have to install them later when im done with BK I).

I am still searching to get my hands on Mission Kursk (with is just available as used copies on Amazon for some 50 bucks ... ) - or is it free to play out there??

Are there any more mods that are absolutely worth playing, besides that GZM-Mod (wich only adds new units?)

Best regards and keep up the great work modders, mappers, contributors and community members, for keeping the game alife!!
Tysk54