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Post by Warlord on Apr 11, 2017 7:10:07 GMT 1
Lads, I finally decided to take the plunge into the underworld of map making, and several questions have arisen (for the time being) now that I finally ended Leon's tutorial, and the test map looks functional: 1.- How to make mountains that really fill their role as obstacles? I mean, I have seen Matador trucks with artillery attached climb mountains without so much as a slowdown, and even worst, tanks roll up a slope from the bottom of a valley, to massacre an infantry squad that was supposed to be in the perfect ambush spot. However, I have also seen (in the Sicily maps of RT) german units in impregnable positions high above, with a carpet of US KIA at the foot of the mountain, trying to make a wide flanking movement that would take them to the summit away from the un-climbable face. In the first case, mountains looked like a badly photoshopped image, rather distorted, while in the second, the unassailable face looked rocky and very convincing. 2.- Is there terrain that is truly impassable? 3.- Can roads be placed over mountains, and be set to become the only way across for vehicles? 4.- How to establish the right balance of forces in a map to make it a tough but still winnable proposition? Only through testing?5.- Can a map covering actions like the Cowra Breakout be designed without it being a 5 minute wonder? I mean, taking place within the small confines of a POW camp...
6.- I'm experimenting with the Asian Typhoon mod, and I can't find planes for Unit Creation, that I have already seen deployed in several mod-based maps, so I have access to all modded ground units, but only to the standard set of aircraft; what can be wrong? Same is happening with other mods.
7.- What good is to set START commands for the human player units? And in the case of the AI, aren't these supposed to be established in the script? Feedback, please...
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Post by Quintaxel on Apr 11, 2017 11:05:07 GMT 1
I can't be of much help because I'm not much of a a mapper myself but I had the same problem with creating impassable obstacles like mountains. I use a special type of roads I got from gagarin . One type of road cannot be passed by any unit and a second type can only be passed by 'human type units'. In this way you can delimit certain areas of the map, like mountain areas. If this helps then I can get you the roads. Check this thread, second last post. blitzsrbija.proboards.com/thread/1500/gagarin-textures-objects?page=45
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Post by Stanenberg on Apr 11, 2017 13:56:57 GMT 1
1st: only by using terrain objects. 3d Hills in BK are only visual. they dont block shells or movement. 2nd: I believe swamp is unpassable. Otherwise, use rivers 3rd: What is a mountain? A 3d hill or a terrain object? 3d hills work, Objects dont. making everything but the road passable can only be done by tricks like using impassable terrain/invisible rivers/clever use of objects etc 4th: experience from playing how units work/testing cant help with the other questions since i dont know what the Cowra Breakout is, never tried the Asian Typhoon mod and imo start commands for human players are not important because the player will manage his forces on his own at the start of the map. For the ai its important thought. Especially supply commands and entrench-self are very helpfull. Good luck with mapping! Stanenberg
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bb
General
Blitzkrieg junkie (tried to quit several times).
Posts: 1,361
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Post by bb on Apr 11, 2017 22:26:38 GMT 1
1. Jeff Canada made a tutorial about hills some time ago, meaby someone have it. Anyway, terrain objects, flora and impassable terrain (swamps and marshes) can help with this. 2. Id. Staneberg. 3. Yes, by editing the terrain and using impassable tiles and objects to block the different path. 4. Experience as player and mapper is an important factor, and is good to know the mod which you want to use (as you can notice, most mappers are specialists in one or two mods). Anyway, playing your map is almost indispensable, you can use the cheats to speed the process, but a good mapper is first a good player. 5. Well, I think you are talking about tiny maps, if yes, there're some good examples around, Mr.Frost, Dmitry M. and Ocelo made some interesting little maps. Stanenberg made some good ones too, but he is usually too megalomaniac and prefers to make 80x80 maps to MK. 6. ID. SJ. 7. The most common use is to entrech and resuply to AI and Player, you can use the to swarm or move, but in my experience is better and easier use the script.
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Post by Warlord on Apr 11, 2017 23:02:46 GMT 1
6.- I'm experimenting with the Asian Typhoon mod, and I can't find planes for Unit Creation, that I have already seen deployed in several mod-based maps, so I have access to all modded ground units, but only to the standard set of aircraft; what can be wrong? Same is happening with other mods. You will need the updated 1.4 version Map Editor. Known bug in the shipped version. Do you know where I can get it?
By the way, still have to check on the reshuffling of files you told me to do, to see if I can get the CFCS ME to work. Will advise as soon as I do it.
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Post by Warlord on Apr 11, 2017 23:04:08 GMT 1
Please do, mate; everything helps! Once I get them, where do I download them? By the way, thanks for the link; very useful!
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Post by Warlord on Apr 11, 2017 23:11:23 GMT 1
1st: only by using terrain objects. 3d Hills in BK are only visual. they dont block shells or movement. 2nd: I believe swamp is unpassable. Otherwise, use rivers 3rd: What is a mountain? A 3d hill or a terrain object? 3d hills work, Objects dont. making everything but the road passable can only be done by tricks like using impassable terrain/invisible rivers/clever use of objects etc 4th: experience from playing how units work/testing cant help with the other questions since i dont know what the Cowra Breakout is, never tried the Asian Typhoon mod and imo start commands for human players are not important because the player will manage his forces on his own at the start of the map. For the ai its important thought. Especially supply commands and entrench-self are very helpfull. Good luck with mapping! Stanenberg Mate, your 3rd: is very interesting: An invisible river? What do you mean by impassable terrain? Swamps? Which would be the trick to make impassable terrain?
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Post by Warlord on Apr 11, 2017 23:17:00 GMT 1
1. Jeff Canada made a tutorial about hills some time ago, meaby someone have it. Anyway, terrain objects, flora and impassable terrain (swamps and marshes) can help with this. 2. Id. Staneberg. 3. Yes, by editing the terrain and using impassable tiles and objects to block the different path. 4. Experience as player and mapper is an important factor, and is good to know the mod which you want to use (as you can notice, most mappers are specialists in one or two mods). Anyway, playing your map is almost indispensable, you can use the cheats to speed the process, but a good mapper is first a good player. 5. Well, I think you are talking about tiny maps, if yes, there're some good examples around, Mr.Frost, Dmitry M. and Ocelo made some interesting little maps. Stanenberg made some good ones too, but he is usually too megalomaniac and prefers to make 80x80 maps to MK. 6. ID. SJ. 7. The most common use is to entrech and resuply to AI and Player, you can use the to swarm or move, but in my experience is better and easier use the script. Do you know how to contact JC? Or the whereabouts of the tutorial?
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Post by Warlord on Apr 11, 2017 23:38:16 GMT 1
Thanks to you lot for the input, and please, keep it coming; I'll need it... By the way, is there a way around here to write multi-quote answers?
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Post by Stanenberg on Apr 12, 2017 0:50:44 GMT 1
Check JeffCanadas maps for the invisble rivers. blitzsrbija.proboards.com/thread/170/heighs-tutorialThe Swamp terrain tile blocks movement of all units. If you want something to block movement on a steep hill it looks weird to have a swamp though (thats something i can imagine bb would map). The best solution is maybe to MOD an impassable terrain. 8
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Post by Warlord on Apr 12, 2017 2:09:26 GMT 1
Check JeffCanadas maps for the invisble rivers. blitzsrbija.proboards.com/thread/170/heighs-tutorialThe Swamp terrain tile blocks movement of all units. If you want something to block movement on a steep hill it looks weird to have a swamp though (thats something i can imagine bb would map). The best solution is maybe to MOD an impassable terrain. 8 The link to JC manual appears offline on JDownloader However, I'm already toying with and idea of mine for blocking movement, and so far, it has worked. I'll keep you lot updated.
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bb
General
Blitzkrieg junkie (tried to quit several times).
Posts: 1,361
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Post by bb on Apr 12, 2017 3:35:35 GMT 1
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kaoz
General
inter faesces et urinam nascimur
Posts: 1,112
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Post by kaoz on Apr 12, 2017 19:58:28 GMT 1
Here's 1.4 MapEditor: link Simply copy the exe and overwrite existing one. In case it doesn't start, unzip the dll.zip to bk/run folder and choose overwrite, but i didn't need to do this. You can check version in MapEditor by clicking Help > About.
It is possible to set opacity for roads and rivers. They always look better when opacity is set to 80 or 90% so they blend a little with the terrain underneath. To create impassable river, set the opacity to 0 and make the river-width very small.
Right balance of forces can only be achieved by testing, testing, testing again and testing again... and when you think you've tested it all, there's a player doing something from a complete different angle which you hadn't thought of and then testing starts again ;-)
Start commands are very important! Some can only be made in MapEditor while others can only be made in lua script. A good combination of both can make a map more interesting, especially for AI.
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Post by Warlord on Apr 13, 2017 4:32:20 GMT 1
Lads, another question:
I'm trying to create some "made by me" mountains, but keep getting ridicule results, with heights not above 2, or maybe a few peaks of 2.5. I'm looking for 5's or 10's on the "Z" coordinates, but have been able to get those results only with the automatic generator, spread over the entire map.
Can those heights be reached manually? Most likely I'm using the wrong settings, but I still get a little lost when dealing with the "Heights" tab.
Help, please.
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kaoz
General
inter faesces et urinam nascimur
Posts: 1,112
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Post by kaoz on Apr 14, 2017 19:28:49 GMT 1
Heights have a limitation per VIS tile in relation to their surrounding VIS tiles. Therefore, if you keep clicking on the same VIS tile, you will soon reach its limit. On the other hand, if you keep left mouse button pressed and then move, you will notice that the surrounding tiles will increase/decrease as well and from that point, you can go higher and higher or lower and deeper.
Next, when using a mouse-wheel, you can flatten heights to 'plateau's'.
Roads and rivers become very difficult to select or even to place, if not impossible sometimes. Can be frustrating and that is why i will always keep this (setting heights) for last.
There is the possibility to set heights in xml. Tangram has a tutorial 'embankments' about this, but that is way to mathematical for a chaotic brain like mine.
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