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Post by Quintaxel on Apr 22, 2021 21:11:09 GMT 1
Warehouses have an infinite amount of supplies. Now I’m not an advocate for more realism in the game but infinite supplies is unrealistic. Therefore I wonder if it would be possible to make a static supply unit. Say a unit that looks like bunker or even better even better railway wagon. This unit could then hold a certain amount of ammo (more than a supply truck, but limited). Units could come close to this unit to resupply. Once the static unit is out of ammo it would become useless as it cannot resupply. A player would have to take this into account, every bullet, every shell counts.
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Grot
General
J-23 znowu nadaje
Posts: 4,047
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Post by Grot on Apr 22, 2021 21:43:52 GMT 1
what would happen to large maps with many units ? if you implement that idea I assume everyone runs out of ammo pretty fast
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Post by Squire James on Apr 22, 2021 22:06:32 GMT 1
Warehouses have an infinite amount of supplies. Now I’m not an advocate for more realism in the game but infinite supplies is unrealistic. Therefore I wonder if it would be possible to make a static supply unit. Say a unit that looks like bunker or even better even better railway wagon. This unit could then hold a certain amount of ammo (more than a supply truck, but limited). Units could come close to this unit to resupply. Once the static unit is out of ammo it would become useless as it cannot resupply. A player would have to take this into account, every bullet, every shell counts. CMC/TDA tried that. It....wasn't fun.
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Post by Stanenberg on Apr 23, 2021 1:16:25 GMT 1
Another option is to replace trucks. You designate an Area on the Map, where empty trucks are replaced by new, full trucks in a given time intervall.
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Post by Quintaxel on Apr 23, 2021 6:50:05 GMT 1
what would happen to large maps with many units ? if you implement that idea I assume everyone runs out of ammo pretty fast Not necessarily. You could always put more of these warehouses on the map. Such warehouses would be of more strategic value then is the case now. These warehouse should only be used for the player side, otherwise you have a point.
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Post by Quintaxel on Apr 23, 2021 6:57:16 GMT 1
Another option is to replace trucks. You designate an Area on the Map, where empty trucks are replaced by new, full trucks in a given time intervall. Haha, you can read my mind Stanenberg. I'm started working on such script. But not just replacing the trucks. Trucks would move to the edge of the map empty end then return with supplies. The truck would/could aslo follow the roads that the player occupies. And yes long supply lines are what they are. As in real life it would take time to get supplies but that is realistic I think. Trucks would find there way back and forth by script.
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Post by keepitsimple on Apr 23, 2021 9:03:16 GMT 1
The idear of Stanenberg is already implement in follow map. There are two supply area's where the play can send his empty, supply and engineers trucks and get reload (=new) supply/engineer truck. If the player lost the area he also lost the ability to resupply there. The number of resupplies was in this case also limited to x number of supplies after which no more supply from this location was possible. Battle of the Hochwald, Germany, 22 February 1945. Map 24x20 Game: BK MOD: Frankreich40'mod + patch 17-33+ F44 setting Author: KeepItSimple Season: Spring Year: 1945 Player: German AI: British XXX corps Scenario After the failure of Operation Market Garden late september all has been quiet on the Western Front. Now February 1945, the allies are back on the offensive. You are in charge of the defense of the Hochwald near city of Xanten. Operation Watch am Rhine has used up most of our reserves. Your Tigers and Panthers will have to make due with fuel they have. Ammo is also scarces. Furthermore, don't expect much from reinforcements and forget about air support. [F44Mv33]Hochwald
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Post by Quintaxel on Apr 23, 2021 11:13:04 GMT 1
Interesting, thanks. I'll have a peek at the script. I specifically want supplies to come in from outside the map so the player does not only have to keep control over the place where supplies are delivered but also needs to control the roads the trucks are using to get the supplies in and out.
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olvie
Potporucnik
Posts: 104
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Post by olvie on Apr 24, 2021 15:34:08 GMT 1
Warehouses have an infinite amount of supplies. Now I’m not an advocate for more realism in the game but infinite supplies is unrealistic. Therefore I wonder if it would be possible to make a static supply unit. Say a unit that looks like bunker or even better even better railway wagon. This unit could then hold a certain amount of ammo (more than a supply truck, but limited). Units could come close to this unit to resupply. Once the static unit is out of ammo it would become useless as it cannot resupply. A player would have to take this into account, every bullet, every shell counts. CMC/TDA tried that. It....wasn't fun. Stalingrad didn't have supply depots and I thought it worked really well there. I agree that supplies aren't very well thought through and feel unsatisfying. On one hand it's super essential to have supply trucks and supply depots for your army to function, which is perfectly logical and as things should be. On the other hand, if you have trucks and depots, which almost every mission gives you from the start, you basically never need to worry about ever again. Managing supplies in BK boils down to selecting a truck, pressing X and clicking in the general vicinity of your artillery and voila, you're a master supply tactician. The hardest part about this is making sure your trucks don't wander off and get themselves killed due to terrible pathfinding. I can think of two missions I've played recently that gave the player limited supplies at the beginning, the first one is keepitsimple's mission based on my Russia map, the other one being Simeo's Mareth Line for GZM. I really enjoyed having to manage my resources and having to prioritise which units get repaired and re-supplied. Sure, in both cases it was a huge relief when I finally captured the depot but looking back at it, I enjoyed the early parts of these missions the most. Every unit becomes so much more valuable when you can't just beat the whole game with only your strongest ones. Limiting supplies is also an excellent counter against the infinite infantry exploit. I think there is a lot of potential to make supplies more interesting and challenging, although this is undoubtedly another one of these issues where the most satisfying solutions will be impossible due to hard-coded limitations.
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Post by Quintaxel on Apr 24, 2021 19:56:53 GMT 1
I think there is a lot of potential to make supplies more interesting and challenging, although this is undoubtedly another one of these issues where the most satisfying solutions will be impossible due to hard-coded limitations. BK Lua script has it limits but I'm confident that I can script something. If supplies come with trucks then you could limit the number of resupplies, even for each individual type of support vehicle. (Ammo, repair, ambulance) I'm unsure if the AI will automatically resupply AI units if supplies/warehouse are place on the map as reinforcements. When the AI loses a warehouse then it should be taken of the map so the player cannot use it. The script for managing the resupply of units should be simple for the player. Just give the order to resupply. The unit should then find its way to the point where it leaves the map and return after a certain delay. I don’t know how this will turn out in term of fun or added value to the gameplay but I would like to try it.
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Post by Quintaxel on Apr 29, 2021 15:24:26 GMT 1
I tested some scripts as a proof of concept and I was able to achieve what I want. Support vehicles can get supplies "off the map". This is how it works The player can move empty supply trucks to specific places on the map, close to where the action takes place or wherever the mapper sees fit. I call this droppoints. The support vehicles then uses fixed paths or roads to move to the edge of the map and drives of the map. (a scripted illusion of course) After a given time full truck will respawn where it left the map and move back near the droppoint where it was placed by the player. The vehicle will use the same path it followed to get supplies. Scripting the use of different paths to get supplies and to bring in supplies is technically possible but maybe something for later. NBow te cahllenge is to rewrite the script so it can be used as a function. This could be a bit of a challenge. The idea for a function would something like this. function SupplyByTruck (iScriptID, str_SpawnScriptArea, var_Track, str_DropScriptArea, iDelayTime , iLives) where: iScriptID = ScriptID of the vehicle str_SpawnScriptArea = The scriparea where the vehicle move on and off the map. var_Track = The array containing the track the vehicle will follow to get supplies in and out. str_DropScriptArea = Scriptarea where the vehicle is placed to start the resupply routine iDelayTime = Time before the unit respawns on the map afer it left the map. iLives = The number of times the truck will get supplies minus the times the unit gets killed. so if the variable iLives is set at 10 then you could get a maximum of 10 resupplies by the vehicle. However, each time the unit gets killed during the game then the number of resupplies would be reduced by 1. A future option would be to randomize the number of lives ans/or the iDelayTimedelay. The challenge is to have the supply trucks move with the frontline. So the droppoints, track and the point on the map where the support vehicle will have to move during the game. So this is the plan, now let's see where this leads to
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Post by Stanenberg on Apr 30, 2021 12:04:49 GMT 1
Wouldnt it be easier to just have the players move the vehicle to the edge of the map themselfes?
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Post by Quintaxel on Apr 30, 2021 12:12:53 GMT 1
Wouldnt it be easier to just have the players move the vehicle to the edge of the map themselfes? Easier to script maybe but not easier for the player and probably no fun at all. Besides I would like supply trucks to follow a track or a road. The script should automate supplies. The player would just have to worry to keep control over the area/roads that are used by the supply trucks. I would also like the function to be a now brainer for scripters.
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Post by Quintaxel on May 3, 2021 20:33:21 GMT 1
Just finished a first version of the function. Everything seems to work fine so far. An advantage of having supplies coming in from behind the frontline is the fact that supply trucks will not go wandering off to a supply depot and get killed by the AI. There’s still one limitation. In this version each supply truck is bound to a supply point (the place on the map where the unit brings the supplies) and a droppoints (places where empty tucks are placed by the player to get re-supplies). Technically this can be solved but this will probably make using the SupplyByTruck function more difficult to use for scripters. Maybe I’ll leave it like this for the moment. I’ll see if I can make an post short video later this week.
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Grot
General
J-23 znowu nadaje
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Post by Grot on May 3, 2021 22:08:28 GMT 1
Just drop supplies by air
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