Understanding sight/sightpower/camouflage

[Herr Kodax]

As the title suggest, this thred is all about the sight,sightpower and camouflage parameters. I've been studying them in the past few days, and I believe I have (finally) found a way to calculate how much camoed a unit is in regards to another unit's sight and sightpower values.


Let us begin.

Sight, or S is a parameter found in every unit's .xml file, and determines how far a unit can see. 1 tile equals 2 sight.



Sightpower (Sp for reference, again, found in unit's .xml) determines how good (or bad) a unit is at detecting camouflaged enemies.

Camouflage (C, found in - you guessed it - every unit's .xml) is percentage. It is used to give us the actual camouflage (Ac for short), which in return will help us calculate the detection range (Dr) which is the range a camouflaged unit will be detected by another unit, and what this thread is all about.

And the formulas you need are:
Ac = (C/100) * S
Dr = (S - Ac)/Sp


Example:

A unit (unit A) has S=85 and Sp=0.6, and is moving down a road. In it's path is another unit (unit B), hidden with C=65. The range at which it will be detected is:

Ac = (C/100) * S
Ac = (65/100) * 85
Ac = 55.25



Dr = (S - Ac)/Sp
Dr = (85 - 55.25)/0.6
Dr = 29.75/0.6
Dr = 49.583333.....

So, Unit A will detect unit B at 49.58333... range.







Obviously, you can't tell exactly in the editor 49.58333, but it is ever so close to 50.

So, this is how I believe the detection range is calculated in Blitzkrieg. The math works*, and many tests in game confirm this formula.

I posted this prematurely, as I have not finished the research on binoculars/camo formation. But I was too exited to hold it back. I'll be editing the thread with new info as I progress.

Edit #1: The formulas for a unit using binoculars is the same, but instead of the 'Sight' parameter, you use the binoculars' sight (SpyGlassRadius, located in the consts.xml and is in a.i points, 32 a.i points = 1 sight range).

Edit #2: Sneak formation is being able to move while camouflaged. Same formulas apply, so don't reach the detection range and you'll be fine. You can also shoot while camouflaged, and how much you can shoot before being spotted seems to depend on the 'SniperCanouflageDecreasePerShoot" parameter, but so far no good results on that. - Might be wrong on this one, slashed untile 100% sure.



*You may ask: 'What if you have negative value for Sight, sightpower or camouflage? What if you have camouflage greater than 100?" I did a little messing around, and came to the conclusion that the game might not care about negative values (just takes the number), or gives funky results (camo greater that 100). I decided to stop trying to figure out HOW the funky results are given, as it is pointless and a waste of time (like giving terrain passability negative value, and having units moving at negative speed - aka backwards).

[Major Pain]

Damn... the Math Wizard has done it again...

Way to go KODAX, I am happy you are working on this data and formulas...

[Herr Kodax]

Hope they'll be of some use in your Generation II project MP.

[Herr Kodax]

Sorry for bumping, but I need to ask:

How do you make a sniper's (sniper is a unit using the sneak formation I guess) shot blow his cover?

SniperCanouflageDecreasePerShoot is supposed to do the trick, but so far no results. I tried setting it to 1 (its description is:'each shot the probability of decamouflage is increased. 1.0 - maximal camouflage'), increased both TimeBeforeSniperCamouflage (the time sniper should stay idle to camouflage again ( ticks ) - what are ticks btw?)/TimeBeforeCamouflage (time to stay in idle to camouflage), so the snipers doesn't re-camouflage between shots and set SniperCamouflageIncreasePerSegment to 0. But I still have my sniper able to empty(!) his weapon on a bunch of targets in their sight range without anyone spotting him.

Has anyone managed to have the sniper's cover blown by taking a couple of shots, and not after unloading a shitload of bullets?

[Mat]

thx for this!! you are helping me way good!!

[Mascarenhas2]

About sniper camo, I think GZM or GPW has resolved this problem, take a look.

[Herr Kodax]

Thanks Mascarenhas2, but the problem is not the sniper camo (you know, the sniper being in spitting distance of an enemy and still invisible), but his/her ability to shoot and stay invisible.

Unless of course that is what you are talking about, if so, please confirm so I take a look without worrying it might be pointless (well, it will be, since I dunno where and what to look for...)

[Major Pain]

Ok... you're looking at the const.xml


I would not make changes there until you look at other options.

The higher the camouflage is set the harder it will be for an enemy to detect.  The camo value extends to the weapon firing.  So they do go hand in hand.   If the camo level is set to high, then the sniper can almost operate without any impunity.   

From the const.xml:

<Infantry

TimeBeforeSniperCamouflage="2500"   <-----[ The time sniper should stay idle to camouflage again ( ticks )]

TimeOfLyingUnderFire="5000"
LyingSoldierCover="0.5"
RadiusOfFormation="960"
LyingSpeedFactor="0.4"
SpyGlassRadius="1600"
SpyGlassAngle="60" 

SniperCamouflageDecreasePerShoot="0.002"    <----- [Each shot the probability of decamouflage is increased. 1.0 -
maximal camouflage]

SniperCamouflageIncrease="0.001075"    <----[The probability of revealing sniper decreases by this value per 1 segment]

StandLieRandomDelay="2500"
SquadMemberLeaveInterval="500"
MaxDistanceToThrowGrenade="320">





From the Soldier 1.xml:

<RPG
MaxHP="10"
RepairCost="1"
Sight="35"
SightPower="0"
Speed="7"
Passability="1"
Priority="0"
Camouflage="75" <-----------------   Depending on value, determines detection...
Weight="1"
Price="1"
UninstallRotate="0"
UninstallTransport="0"
Armor="0"
CanAttackUp="1"
CanAttackDown="1"
WalkSpeed="5.6"
CrawlSpeed="2.5">

<KeyName></KeyName>
<StatsType>Infa</StatsType>



<Type>sniper</Type>    <-------  The Sniper has hard-coded conditions!!!
<AIClass>human</AIClass>

<Commands Size="51">
<BitArray>
<item data="223"/>
<item data="70"/>
<item data="0"/>
<item data="32"/>
<item data="0"/>
<item data="0"/>
<item data="4"/>
</BitArray>
</Commands>

<Exposures Size="0">
<BitArray/>
</Exposures>


Let's look at how the above Commands were developed:



Let's look at how a Sniper 'Squad' is created.  I'm using my US Sniper Team.  I expanded the file to make it easier to read and understand.   Leaving the file in this form does not affect their function.   Always check 1.xml before trying to run them.


From the Squad 1.xml:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<base>

<History>

<Creator>MAJOR_PAIN</Creator>
<Copyright>01/01/2014</Copyright>
<Model>USA_Scout_Team</Model>

</History>

<RPG>

<Icon></Icon>

<Type>06000000</Type>        <-------------This code defines this Squad as Snipers

*** The Squad Type is key as to what the Squad purpose is!!!

00000000  = Rifle Squad
01000000  = Infantry Squad
02000000  = SubMachine Gunner Team
03000000  = Machine Gunner Squad
04000000  = AT Team
05000000  = Mortar Team
06000000  = Sniper Team/Squad
07000000  = Gunner Team
08000000  = Engineer Team

************
 Continuing...

<Members>

<item>USA_1Sniper</item>      <--------------  The members
<item>USA_1Sniper</item>

</Members>

<Formations>         <-----------   The Bonuses and Formation Stances!!!

<item       
LieFlag="0"    <--------------- [  0 = Default   1 = Stand   2 = Lie  ]     This is default, which is kneeling on my snipers
SpeedBonus="1.5"
DispersionBonus="1.5"
FireRateBonus="1.5"
RelaxTimeBonus="1.5"
CoverBonus="1.5"
VisibleBonus="1.5">

<Type>00000000</Type>     <-  This defines the Formation Stance/Posture  -  both kneeling in defensive and reactionary.

<Order>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="-32.6683" y="10.8894"/></item>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="12.5865" y="10.8894"/></item>
</Order>

*****  Under order:   The Pos x and x define where the Soldier's center exist within the squad relative to the Squad's center.

<ChangesByEvent><item data="-1"/></ChangesByEvent></item>





<item
LieFlag="1" <--------------- [ 0 = Default 1 = Stand 2 = Lie ] This is walking/marching
SpeedBonus="1.5"
DispersionBonus="1.2"
FireRateBonus="1.7"
RelaxTimeBonus="1.7"
CoverBonus="1.9"
VisibleBonus="1.9">

<Type>01000000</Type>    <------------- This defines the Formation Stance/Posture  Lined up to march in formation

<Order>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="-32.6683" y="10.8894"/></item>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="12.5865" y="10.8894"/></item>
</Order>

<ChangesByEvent><item data="2"/></ChangesByEvent></item>


<item
LieFlag="2"    <--------------- [ 0 = Default 1 = Stand 2 = Lie ] This is lying down -defense
SpeedBonus="1.5"
DispersionBonus="1.5"
FireRateBonus="1.5"
RelaxTimeBonus="1.5"
CoverBonus="1.5"
VisibleBonus="1.5">

<Type>02000000</Type>   <------------- This defines the Formation Stance/Posture:  Lying - Defensive

<Order>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="-32.6683" y="10.8894"/></item>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="12.5865" y="10.8894"/></item>
</Order>

<ChangesByEvent><item data="-1"/></ChangesByEvent></item>


<item
LieFlag="2"    <--------------- [ 0 = Default 1 = Stand 2 = Lie ] This is lying down
SpeedBonus="1.5"
DispersionBonus="1.5"
FireRateBonus="1.5"
RelaxTimeBonus="1.5"
CoverBonus="1.5"
VisibleBonus="1.5">


<Type>03000000</Type>    <------------- This defines the Formation Stance/Posture: Lying - Aggressive/Attack

<Order>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="-32.6683" y="10.8894"/></item>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="12.5865" y="10.8894"/></item>
</Order>

<ChangesByEvent><item data="-1"/></ChangesByEvent></item>


<item
LieFlag="2"    <--------------- [ 0 = Default 1 = Stand 2 = Lie ] This is lying down
SpeedBonus="1.5"
DispersionBonus="1.5"
FireRateBonus="1.5"
RelaxTimeBonus="1.5"
CoverBonus="1.5"
VisibleBonus="1.5">

<Type>04000000</Type>     <------------- This defines the Formation Stance/Posture: Crawling - Sneaking

<Order>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="-32.6683" y="10.8894"/></item>
<item Dir="0"><Soldier>USA_1Sniper</Soldier><Pos x="12.5865" y="10.8894"/></item>
</Order>

<ChangesByEvent><item data="-1"/></ChangesByEvent></item>

</Formations>

</RPG>
</base>


There are Five Base Formation Types...   shown above.   By combining Formations and stances, you can define several different kinds of Postures:   Aggressive/Defensive/Passive  -  Standing or lying...

You must define the squad for the purpose or unintended results are possible.   Squads are name sensitive and cannot use the name of any soldier, or vice versa.    Always name you squads as a Team, Squad, Section or Unit.  Never name it just by a type of soldiers to avoid naming conflicts.   All Soldiers and Squads must be defined in the objects.xml or modobjects.xml.   Weapons do not need to be defined in the objects.xml or modobjects.xml




My understanding of a 'tick' is:  1 tick = 1 tenth of a second.  /  10 ticks = 1 second

[Herr Kodax]

Daaaamn, Major that is much more info than I needed. A big thanks to you.

Now, to start slicing the cake.

I tried changing consts.xml, because I thought the 'sniper' parameters in it are refering to units with the sneak formation. No idea squads were issued a 'type' of some sort. I believed setting it to - say 0.6 (1 maximum camo) would mean by taking a shot, a sniper would 'lose'60% of his/her camo. Man, this may go much deeper than I had originally imagined (you know, changing the whole game by making a few alterations here and there, which is basicaly what I've been doing up until now).

The command code calculator sure is badass though. What purpose do different 'types' of squads serve ingame? (gunners, snipers ok, but AT teams and riflemen? Wow...). Have you tried giving the sneak formation to other types of squad other than sniper-type ones (to whom the parameters in the consts. refer to I guess)? Damn new data, so many questions raised from thin air.

I'll probably run some more tests with significantly lowered camo value, see if that indeed makes a difference. But then, I'd have to adjust sightpower accordingly (oh well). Keeping fingers crossed.

As for formations, I already have some experience on the subject from my work on already existing squad xml. files (trial and error), so that ground is covered (or so I think). But that's some grde-A explaining there, so I'll be keeping a copy of the whole post.

Again, many thanks!

[Herr Kodax]

Some observations so far:

Sneak ability only works with units designated as 'sniper'. Units, not squads (tried changing the sniper squad to 'infantry' type, nothing changed - still no idea what different types of squads are for). But - each infantryman has a 'type' as well. Soldier, officer and sniper. All the observations about detection range i posted seem to be about the 'officer' and 'soldier' type, 'sniper' seems to have a different way of calculating Dr (great, same shit as vehicle/infantry passabilities). I need to work more on that data (btw, thanks to Major, for it was his data which gave me the hint), but if you have ANY info on that subject, it would be more than welcome (also, the sniper parameters in the const xml).

[Major Pain]

To answer the question if I have given the Sneak Formation to other kinds of Squads....  the answer is yes.

Why would we not give Squads the Sneak Option.   It is more powerful than just crawling.   Think of Crawling as a Defensive Posture, and Sneak as an Aggressive Posture.

The benefit of sneak is a little better sight and cover bonus... if the Squad is created correctly.  The Bonuses in the Squad 1.xml are there for a reason...  you can tweak the Squad's capabilities and strength based on those Bonuses.   This is where you can define a Green Squad or Veteran Squad.

I'll break it down a bit...


Type>06000000</Type>    <-----------  I already defined this in the previous post


<Members><item>Allies_Sniper</item></Members>

<Formations>

<item

LieFlag="0"
The LieFlag can be set to Default (0), Always Standing (1) or Always Lying (2)

SpeedBonus="1"
You can increase or decrease the walking and crawling speeds.  To decrease speed, the number must be a decimal (0.3) number lower than 1.

DispersionBonus="1"
You can increase or reduce the Squad's weapons accuracy (Dispersion).  To reduce accuracy, the number must be a decimal (0.3) number lower than 1.

FireRateBonus="1"
You can increase or decrease the Squad's Weapons rate of fire.  To decrease rate of fire, the number must be a decimal (0.3) number lower than 1.

RelaxTimeBonus="1"
You can increase or decrease the weapon relax time...   To Increase the number must be a decimal (0.3) number lower than 1.

CoverBonus="1"
You can increase or decrease the camouflage value.   To decrease camo, the number must be a decimal (0.3) number lower than 1.

VisibleBonus="1">
You can increase or decrease the Squad member's sight range.     To decrease sight range, the number must be a decimal (0.3) number lower than 1.

The values you enter for each of the Formations can determine the Squads effectiveness in battle.

For too long, the Infantry has been overlooked as a functional asset.   They are too weak due to the way they are structured.   Changing the Squad members and adjusting the weapons and the soldier's abilities along with providing solid Squad Bonuses, can make them much more effective.

Squads 101

Here I will try to provide a little of my Squad Concept.

Squads need to be created based on a function or need.

Gunners and Engineers have been way too weak to be used as anything other than the original purpose...  Gun team, reload and repair.   These are really not Squads, but Teams due to their member size.  Teams usually have a defined purpose and have fewer members than typical Squads of 8 to 13 members.

Examples of Teams
US_Engineer_Team   - Two members  / used for repair and supply
US_Gun_Team         -  Three members /  Man Most Artillery Weapons
US_Howitzer_Team   - Four members / Man Howitzers only.
US_HMG_Gun_Team  - Three members / Man Heavy machine Guns and Mortars

Let's look at how these are assigned.   In the Data Folder, locate the file names Partys.xml.   Open it in Wordpad and you will find all of the Team/Crew Assignments for each Country.  Mine looks like this:

<item>
<PartyName>USA</PartyName>
<GeneralPartyName>Allies</GeneralPartyName>
<GunCrewSquad>US_Gun_Team </GunCrewSquad>
<HowitzerGunCrewSquad>US_Howitzer_Team</HowitzerGunCrewSquad>
<HeavyMachinegunSquad>US_HMG_Gun_Team</HeavyMachinegunSquad>
<ParatrooperSoldier>Allies_Paratrooper</ParatrooperSoldier>
<ResupplyEngineerSquad>US_Engineer_Team</ResupplyEngineerSquad>
</item>


Note above that I have changed a few team sizes and assignments.  The HMG will take three members, but the mortar will need two, but the third member will follow the the others two around.   Howitzers are defined separately from Artillery Guns.  Not all Howitzers will use 4 members, but the 4th member will man the gun in the rear.


Other Examples of Teams:
USA_Bazooka_Team   - 2 Members
USA_Sapper_Team    - 3 Members

USA_Sniper_Team     - 2 Members

Examples of Squads:
USA_CombatEngineers - 8 Members   
USA_Rifle_Squad_44  - 12 Members


Differences between Teams and Squads
Besides the number of members in a Team and Squad, Teams do not require or utilize Squad Leaders or Officers.

Because teams are vital to our Battle Effectiveness, they should be given all 5 of the Formations.   This gives you some flexibility to use these squads in reserve or for other purposes in a map.   Their purpose and number of members might also be used for sentry duty or other purposes.   But if you lose a Gun crew somewhere, you can assign these reserve squads to take over.

We have the opportunity to capture enemy guns in the game.   I know we all have assigned members from our Squads to enemy guns.   But you should be aware that when you do that, you wreck the battle effectiveness of your squad.   I know, it is convenient and sometimes you need the gun for a purpose.   The better option if possible is to use a Truck to supply the Gun Crew (if it has the Supply Human Command).   Otherwise, use a Team or a weaker Squad.   If you do not have a Truck that Supplies Soldiers, then Squads that are missing members will not have their true battle effectiveness.   The purpose of a Squad is every member depends on another, so the Squad design needs to be based on that.

Example of one of my USA_Rifle_Squad_44

<Members>
<item>USA_1SqLdr</item>
<item>USA_1SCOUT</item>
<item>USA_1AutoRifle</item>
<item>USA_1AsstAutoRifle</item>
<item>USA_1M1Garand</item>
<item>USA_1M7Grenadier</item>
<item>USA_1AsstSqLdr</item>
<item>USA_1SCOUT</item>
<item>USA_1AutoRifle</item>
<item>USA_1AsstAutoRifle</item>
<item>USA_1M1Garand</item>
<item>USA_1M7Grenadier</item>
</Members>


This Squad is based on US Army Squad Sizes which were adopted in Mid 1944.  You'll notice there are 12 members in this Squad.   The Squad is created around two Squad Guns, referred to as AutoRifles.

USA_1AutoRifle:   The Squad gun in this case is the 7.62mm Browning Automatic Rifle or BAR.   This is a Light machine Gun capable of laying down Suppressive Fire.  So a new BAR was created in the Weapons Folder which has been modified to provide Suppressive Fire in a more scaled range.  The BAR Soldier has a sight of 31, but his BAR has a range of 35.   To take advantage of the BAR Range, you can assign the weapon to fire in Suppressive Mode, or the BAR Soldier can depend on the sight of another Squad Members sight range.  So this is an example of the interdepency of the Squad Members.

1AsstAutoRifle:  This Soldier with a Sight value of 31 carries the 7.62 mm M1 Garand that has a range of 31.  So his sight and range are the same.  This Soldier should be the BAR Soldiers right hand man.  He does not really provide BAR ammo, but more watches the BAR guys back.   His primary function in the Squad is as a Rifleman.  He also carries four MkII_Grenades.

USA_1M1Garand:   This soldier has Sight Value of 31 and carries the 7.62 mm M1 Garand. His primary function in the Squad is as a Rifleman.  He also carries four MkII_Grenades.

USA_1M7Grenadier:  This soldier has a sight value of 31 and carries the 7.62 mm M1 Garand.    Most of the time he is a Rifleman, but he also carries M7 Grenades which can be launched from his Garand.  The M7 Grenades can be fired at a range of 35 and can be used against Bunkers and up to Medium Armored Units.   He might try to attack a Tiger but can only damage the tracks.   So here is another example where the weapon can be effective based on any other soldiers sight range. 

USA_1SCOUT:   This soldier is the eyes and ears of the Squad.  He has a Sight value of 35 and carries the 7.62 mm M1C Garand SR that has a Range of 40.  He also carries four MkII_Grenades.   This Soldier is defined as a Sniper and has the Binocular Command.   Using his scope he can take advantage of the Range of 40.   His sight value provides extra range for some of the Squad Members Weapons.  But this guys also should be your point guy to provide early warning for the Squad.

USA_1SqLdr:   The Soldier is the Squad Leader and is defined as an Officer.   He has a sight of 32 and carries the 11_43mm_1928A1_SMG (Thompson) which has a range of 32.   He has the Binocular Command but his range is less than the Scout.   He provides Squad continuity and is protected by the other Squad Members.   Having said that, he is quite aggressive during close in fighting.  He also carries four MkII_Grenades.

USA_1AsstSqLdr:   This soldier has the same capabilities as the Squad Leader and is capable of taking over the Squad if the leader is eliminated.  He has a sight of 32 and carries the 11_43mm_1928A1_SMG and four MkII_Grenades.

This Squad is created around two Squad Guns and Fire Teams.   The Squad Leader and his Assistant are both responsible for a Fire Team.   The Term Fire Team was not used by the US Army during WW2, although the US Marines did.   Other terms were adopted which meant much the same thing as a Fire Team, most actual Squads did include a Squad Gun of some kind; BAR, BREN, MG42, etc...   During WW2, most Nations had made changes to how their Squads were created.   Some Countries, mostly the UK Commonwealth, used the term Section in place of the word Squad.

With a little research, you can create your own Squads based on historical units, and make changes to the Weapons to increase the Squad Effectiveness.

Within the BK Original Squads, you will find 9 and 10 members Squads for several Armies.   While the number of members might be correct, the type of members usually is not.   We have a Soldier representing the Officer, which looks like a General or Colonel. These are typically weak units carrying only a sidearm.   My decision to create new Squad leaders was very much based on history.   Squad Leaders were almost always  Lieutenants, Sergeants or Corporals, never Generals.   Even if you create a HQ Squad, it should have its own Squad Leader, perhaps a high a Captain, but still it should be an effective fighting unit.  The General looking guys should be standalones in my opinion.   

**


Currently I am updating most Infantry Sprites, by adding missing animations like grenade throwing, or kneeling.   I hope to release these Soldiers sometime next month.   I will offer some Squads for various nations for examples which can be used.  But the primary purpose of this Project is to provide the user/player more options for their Squads.  

I will provide illustrations on how to construct Squads of different sizes and purposes.   One other thing that I will provide are Bonus Charts that will show you the effect of the Bonuses on the base values of the Squad and Members.  I'll include the Formulas so you can calculate the values, but the Charts should provide you most of the information.   I urge caution on setting these Bonuses to high or low...  too high might create a Monster Squad which might be hard to kill; too weak and they are killed with ease.  So I think it will be constructive to show you what is going on.

I hope you find this post inspirational and educational.

[Herr Kodax]

Thanks a lot Major. Now, allow me to rip and analyze your post piece by piece :/

-Type>06000000</Type> <----------- I already defined this in the previous post

The question still stands, what is the difference gameplay-wise between a 06000000 (sniper squad) from a 01000000 (infantry squad) squad. Do different types come with bonuses/penalties? Or are they mostly for identification purposes?

-To answer the question if I have given the Sneak Formation to other kinds of Squads.... the answer is yes.

Did you assign sneak as - say - aggressive crawiling, or to, well, sneak? because it only works as 'sneaking' for members assigned as snipers. More of that later.

Formations and formation bonuses

As said befor, I have worked on the subject, so I *think* I know the ropes here. I have't tried setting them below 0, but anything below 1 means decreased parameter. Take my version of aggressive stance for example.
-Visiblebonus: 0.75 - meaning the units in the squad lose 25% of their sight when in aggressive stance.
-Coverbonus: 0.5 - meaning they are about 50% less likely to get shot
-Relaxtimebonus: 0.7 - meaning the time between each shot (or burst) is reduced by 30%
-Firratebonus: 1 - attacking (or doing whatever) does not make the gun in your hands shoot bullets faster or slower (for SMGs/MGs)
-Dispersionbonus: 1.35 - Units in a squad in aggressive stands are 35% more inaccuate with their shots.
-Speedbonus: 2 - Twice the speed for a successful charge.
-Lieflag: 1 - You can't charge while on your belly. Always standing.

Which makes some sense (in my books at least). While charging and in the shit, you are not fully aware of your surroundings (reduced vision), others can't aim at you easily because you are running (Coverbonus reduction) and you are likely to shoot more often (reduced relax time), but without aiming much (increased dispersion). It's still WiP though, and prone to future changes.


-Squads 101...end of post

New information (the party.xml bit), and a badass analysis of a squad (which btw gives me new ideas on the importance of squad members besided being more firepower)? I'll take it, thanks very much!

But - the 'hot potato' still exists. Camouflage of snipers and how it works, what other parameters work in conjuction with it. And by snipers I mean:

-<RPG CrawlSpeed="1.82" WalkSpeed="3.7" CanAttackDown="1" CanAttackUp="1" Armor="0" UninstallTransport="0" UninstallRotate="0" Price="1" Weight="80" Camouflage="60" Priority="0" Passability="0.7" Speed="125.2" SightPower="1" Sight="100" RepairCost="1" MaxHP="21">

<KeyName>USSR_Sniper</KeyName>

<StatsType>Infa</StatsType>

<DamagedHPs/>

<Defence0 Silhouette="1" MaxArmor="90" MinArmor="40"/>

<Defence1 Silhouette="1" MaxArmor="90" MinArmor="40"/>

<Defence2 Silhouette="1" MaxArmor="90" MinArmor="40"/>

<Defence3 Silhouette="1" MaxArmor="90" MinArmor="40"/>

<Defence4 Silhouette="1" MaxArmor="90" MinArmor="40"/>

<Defence5 Silhouette="1" MaxArmor="90" MinArmor="40"/>

<Type>sniper</Type>

<AIClass>human</AIClass>

Units which in their xml. files are assigned the 'sniper' type. Their camo seems to function differently, and only such units actually benefit from the sneak formation (do actual sneaking). Which also explains why the Forward Observer teams in Mission Kursk were shit at sneaking while using the sneak formation. The team was comprised of an officer (FO) and a soldier (Radioman), so 'sneak' was just another name for crawling, no sneaking whatsoever. But if they were bot the 'sniper' type, you would have a sneaky FO team (wish I knew that info before, could've saved lots and lost of frustration).

I'm trying to be as clear as possible on what I'm trying to figure out here Major, and the 'secret' seems to be at unit level rather than squad. If I'm not clear and you have questins (lol, that's a good one) please say so. Also, sorry if the posts make me seem like a rude a-hole.

[Mascarenhas2]

Here's another excellent information. Again, it could very well became a How To by both you guys. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[Major Pain]

Read above...  I made a mistake and had to correct it.   I mistakenly advised you had to use a negative number to reduce any of the bonus values.   I was a bit tired and don't know what I was thinking about.   Sorry about the error.

Ok... here is how the Bonuses work:  

Example:

SpeedBonus       =  Soldier Momentum
DispersionBonus  =  Weapon Accuracy
FireRateBonus     =  Weapon Rounds Per Minute
RelaxTimeBonus   =  Weapon Pause
CoverBonus        =  Soldier Camouflage
VisibleBonus       =  Soldier Range

You have to think about these Bonuses as Multipliers.   That is a more Appropriate term.  Kodax correctly provided the formulas in his last post.

Any Bonus value that equals 1.0 means the Function is not changed.  

If you enter a zero for any of these bonuses... you effectively cancel that function.  So if you want a Blind Squad, Set the  VisibleBonus to "0"  (Zero).  A Squad that is frozen and cannot move means you gave the SpeedBonus  a value of "0".


A Bonus can also act like a Penalty.   To determine the value you want...  use that Functions value and multiply it by the respective Bonus.   This is exactly why the Bonuses should be considered Multipliers rather the a Bonus.   It can cut either way.

FunctionValue x Multiplier = ActualValue


Any decimal number Lower than 1.0 and Greater than 0.0, will reduce the effectiveness of that function.  In other words, this is a Penalty.

VisibleBonus="0.5"     <-------  You have reduced the Squads Sight by 50%.

Sight = "30"
VisibleBonus = "0.5"

30 x .50 = 15..... So the Squads Sight is now 15, assuming all of the soldiers have a sight of 30.   Each soldiers function values are reduced by half... not averaged for the Squad.


Any number (or decimal number) greater than 1.0 is a Bonus.

****

Let think about a Sniper for just a minute.   Let's give him a Sight of "45", and set the VisibleBonus to "1".

Let's use another Soldier and set his Sight to "30" and set the VisibleBonus to "1.5".

Both soldiers will have a sight distance of 45.   Do you see it?  

Sniper:   (45 x 1.0 = 45)
Soldier:  (30 x 1.5 = 45)


*******************

Ok, a word about Sneak (Formation Type 04000000)

I don't know what kind of Soldiers you defined in your member list, but you must have an NCO (Officer) or Scout (Sniper) in the Squad.   All of the Soldiers then take on the attributes of the Sneak Formation.  

The Squad must be defined as:
00000000 = Rifle Squad
01000000 = Infantry Squad
02000000 = SubMachine Gunner Team
03000000 = Machine Gunner Squad

A Sniper Team would be defined as: 06000000

Snipers can only be detected by Sniper and Officer defined Soldiers within their sight range.  When the sniper fires and are within Sight range of a Soldier or Vehicle, he reduces his camo value.   The camo value increases as he lays still and does not fire.  If a sniper does sneak within sight range of an enemy, he may still be hard to detect.... but movement does reduce his camo value slightly when he is in range of the enemy.

Please advise how the Squad is designed and what you are seeing in your testing.

And yes, the Definition of the Type of Squad does matter.  The Type of Squad defines its primary purpose.   Sniper defined Squads do have an advantage in Camo and can detect other Snipers further.  This is a unique capability.  This is exactly why a Scout in the Squad is valuable, although the Scout will not be as good as a Sniper in terms of camo, and has about 85% of the Sniper Detection Ability.

A sniper should only get a CoverBonus when he is lying down or crawling.   When he stands up, he does maintain his normal camo value... but perhaps the camo value is set too high in the Snipers 1.xml.  Perhaps the Squad CoverBonus should increase or decrease the final value based on his Stance.  

In my own Squads, I have added the kneeling defensive Formation as the default.   This deviates from the BK Squads which stand around in a  Defensive Formation.  I hate Squads that just stand around in lines.  They are easy targets.  My Squads get the CoverBonus of 1.5 in the default Formation.  So if the Average Soldier has a camo value of 30... he is changed to 45 in the kneeling posture.   When they are laying down in a defensive posture, they get a 1.7 CoverBonus which is 51 camo.   While Standing they are penalized with a 0.8 coverbonus which is a camo value of 24 since they are exposed.  When they are in assault Formation and charging, the CoverBonus is set to .5 and the Camo is then 15.   The Sneak Formation provides a 1.9 coverbonus which is a camo value of 57.

You can adjust each of the Formations to values based upon what the Squad is doing...  which provides a realistic representation.

I developed this Chart for easy Calculations of the Multipliers (Bonuses):



I highlighted the 30 under FUNCTION because this is the normal sight and weapon ranges.   Dispersion will be a little tough to determine with this chart, but you can make a good guess or use the Formula I provided.


One more thing I'll mention is how you can determine the range/distance in Meters, Scaled Meters of course.   This is an easy calculation... you simply multiply the sight/range x 1.5 and you have the Scaled Distance in Meters.    So a Sight or Range of 30 is 45 meters...   which is way below a rifle or cannon range.... and too short for sight.   But NIVAL had to use some creative latitude in the design. 

Refer to my Distance Calculator to see how distance and ranges relate to the Map Size in terms if Tiles and Squares.   The Tiles and Squares can be seen using the Tile Overlay in the MapEditor.  

Remember, a 32 x 32 map is 1536 meters x 1536 meters in the BK Scale... just under 1 Square Mile.  A 21 x21 sized Map is about equal to one Square Kilometer... 1008 meters x 1008 meters.


More later...

[Deleted]

Very good, important information.

Thank you very much friend.