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Post by Jagged Steel on Sept 28, 2014 23:18:34 GMT 1
It isn't a hardware issue that I am referring to. My current rig is ASUS Sabertooth Mobo/ FX 4170 OC'd to 5 Ghz/ 16 GB Samsung Wonder RAM/ dual HD 6970 in Crossfire, All drives are SSD, etc, etc.. I could probably run 10 instances of BK at the same time on this rig. The problem has to do with the way that models are scaled to fit the screen in the game. To be more precise, it has to do with details that can be added on higher resolution that look great in close up view, but when scaled to fit the format of the game they introduce Moire patterns and the dreaded black outline effect. This has been a long standing issue. To be clear: Some expert skinners can create skins that get around this effect, but really what they have to do is not include extra detail that is possible in higher resolution skins which negates the purpose of having the extra resolution to begin with.
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Post by Squire James on Sept 29, 2014 0:30:21 GMT 1
As a texturer myself, I have to agree with JaggedSteel. 512 x 512 is pretty much the largest necessary, even for large units like the Todt Battery. As Jagged says, moire patterns and black outlines occur at anything larger than that.
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Post by Churro on Sept 29, 2014 2:49:15 GMT 1
I have not read this thread thoroughly, so I am just commenting on the last few things posted. In my opinion, skin size in BK becomes counterproductive beyond 512x . Most units actually look best in the game when using a 256x or smaller skin, because the game engine runs into problems displaying larger skins correctly and you end up with awful Moiré patterns and such that ruin the immersion of the unit into the scene. 1024x skins look great in the Tanks Viewer, but generally not so in the game. I am a big fan of being able to capture enemy gear of all sorts, so I am looking forward to that, regardless of whether it is 100% historically accurate or not. I had always dreamed that someone would have acquired the game engine used by Monte Cristo for Desert Rats vs Afrika Korps and the other related games they made, as manning the equipment was an integral part of the game and added a lot to your options. I think the addition of fuel would be simply fantastic, but there will likely be squawks from the Multiplayer crowd about anything that complicates things. Many Multiplayers will LITERALLY call you a cheater if you even use your resupply trucks. They just want "Bunch-O big tanks vs Bunch-O big tanks" types of battles , which I find absolutely boring and pandering to the lowest skill level players. I am of course primarily a Multiplayer, and I have the opposite mindset than most, and enjoy extra complexity. I feel it gives me an edge as I am a good multitasker and enjoy the minutiae involved in not only ordering complex attacks, but keeping my men properly supplied, reparied , and replaced when lost in battle. Great work as always, MP, looking forward to seeing this project progress. People, give this guy around of appulause!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 3:19:35 GMT 1
The truth that quality 1024 px. is not bad, indeed, the details are accentuated much better with a good quality skin. The question in my humble opinion I think that round creating good skins. Greetings.
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dragonwolf
Pukovnik
Howling with delight!
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Post by dragonwolf on Sept 29, 2014 4:15:26 GMT 1
I'll give him a round of applause. I have no idea what appulose is, . . . Ciao, John
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Post by Churro on Sept 29, 2014 4:20:03 GMT 1
I'll give him a round of applause. I have no idea what appulose is, . . . Ciao, John error on in english my friend
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dragonwolf
Pukovnik
Howling with delight!
Posts: 363
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Post by dragonwolf on Sept 29, 2014 4:23:19 GMT 1
Wow, . . . that was a fast answer!
Just having a little friendly fun, my friend.
Ciao, John
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Post by Churro on Sept 29, 2014 5:00:54 GMT 1
Wow, . . . that was a fast answer! Just having a little friendly fun, my friend. Ciao, John indeed my friend
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Post by Jagged Steel on Sept 29, 2014 16:33:26 GMT 1
Wittman: Believe what you want, but I see things in that screen that you obviously do not. Moire patterns and jagged pixelated black outlines on the details, which is exactly what I was talking about. The reality is that the in game rendering of the BK engine is very limited and the extra detail available in larger resolution skins is either wasted (when someone leaves off detail only possible in very high resolution skins) or , it ends up making the unit look worse than a skillfully painted 512x or smaller skin because of limitations in the scaling when reducing a high resolution skin to what BK can actually show in the game.
P.S: The scaling effects are much more evident - and annoying- during actual battle sequences (rather than static screen shots) when you can see the Moire patterns and black outlines dancing around on the units as they move and rotate. The BK engine has limits, and this is one of them. More modern full 3D rendered games usually use multiple skin resolutions for each item to counter these problems as you zoom in and out of a scene.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 17:21:08 GMT 1
Wittman: Believe what you want, but I see things in that screen that you obviously do not. Moire patterns and jagged pixelated black outlines on the details, which is exactly what I was talking about. The reality is that the in game rendering of the BK engine is very limited and the extra detail available in larger resolution skins is either wasted (when someone leaves off detail only possible in very high resolution skins) or , it ends up making the unit look worse than a skillfully painted 512x or smaller skin because of limitations in the scaling when reducing a high resolution skin to what BK can actually show in the game. P.S: The scaling effects are much more evident - and annoying- during actual battle sequences (rather than static screen shots) when you can see the Moire patterns and black outlines dancing around on the units as they move and rotate. The BK engine has limits, and this is one of them. More modern full 3D rendered games usually use multiple skin resolutions for each item to counter these problems as you zoom in and out of a scene. Obviously, you see what you want to see with their own eyes. But it will be difficult to show, what the eyes of other people see. Your opinion and mine are not the only truth here is just our opinion, but other people they also know what they have see ahead of their own eyes. Greetings friend.
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Grot
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Post by Grot on Sept 29, 2014 17:27:31 GMT 1
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Post by Jagged Steel on Sept 29, 2014 17:43:26 GMT 1
Wittman: Here is a simple test to illustrate why large skin resolutions are at the very least not necessary and often counterproductive in BK. This is a snippet of a screen taken at maximum BK screen resolution of 1600x1200x32. This goes for everyone reading this: Please take a guess as to what the skin resolution is for the units pictured. No black outlines and no Moire patterns are evident, yet every detail of the units is shown, down to shovels and Jerry cans on them. Keep in mind that this image is blown up way beyond what is actually shown in the game as well (about 3x), they actually look better at game resolution, but Photobucket has been blowing up my images for some odd reason lately. For the three motorized units, the UE, AB-41, and Saharianna, tell me what skin sizes are used on these three units. No cheating please, I am trying to actually make a point here.
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Grot
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Post by Grot on Sept 29, 2014 18:07:44 GMT 1
I am not greedy 128x128 for this game is enough. To your answer res. is about the same
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Post by Jagged Steel on Sept 29, 2014 18:12:36 GMT 1
Clue: The three units pictured all have different skin sizes. Please take a guess, and I will reveal the answer in a little while.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 18:15:10 GMT 1
@ GrotI got the message. @jagged Steel Quiet do not worry. I believe him. Greetings friends.
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