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Post by LouisXIV on Mar 29, 2010 17:43:50 GMT 1
When is a transport not a transport?
I am trying to classify some vehicles for a Mod of mine. There are a number of different versions of the SdKfz 251 Hanomag, including an ambulance, a support vehicle, and some transports armed with 20mm, 37mm, short and long 75mm, mortar, flamethrower and rocket launchers.
To my mind the mortar Hanomag is obviously an SPG, as is the rocket version. They were not designed to carry troops. But the long 75mm version was designed - I think - to carry troops and then support/defend them. Is it a transport or an SPG? The flamethrower? What would you class as an SPG or a transport?
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Post by evillittlekenny on Mar 29, 2010 20:39:16 GMT 1
Are you sure for the long 75mm? This things were pretty big and don't forget that they also needed ammo and a crew.
I would say that transports are:
- ambulance - 20mm - maybe 37mm
Therefor SPG's would be:
- both 75mm - mortar - flamethrower - rocket launcher
But no guarantee for it, that's now without googling etc. It's from the top of my head what I know about this thingies.
And what do you mean with "support vehicle"? Ammo carrier?
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Post by LouisXIV on Mar 30, 2010 1:27:08 GMT 1
By support I mean that, when the infantry was out of the vehicle attacking a target, the Hanomag would be standing off at a distance firing into the target to support the infantry's attack.
Also if the enemy suddenly popped up a tank or two, the long 75mm - or the 37mm for that matter - would provide the infantry some extra anti-tank power.
If you get the extra add-on for Rolling Thunder, there is a Hanomag with a 75mm AT gun and shield mounted just behind the cab.
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Post by Aleksandar on Mar 30, 2010 9:16:19 GMT 1
Hmm, Louis, I believe that you can put up for transport everything non-armed or armed with light weapons (Mg-34 and 42). If the vehicle is designed to transport squad of soldiers then it's armored transporter. If it has say 37mm gun and can transport some 3 or 4 soldiers then it's support gun. By the way, I've got something for you: www.sendspace.com/file/nexhh4SdKfz 234 with 20 and 75mm.
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Post by LouisXIV on Mar 30, 2010 11:50:44 GMT 1
Okay, thanks, downloaded it, Aleks. I put it straight into a special folder I have called AFGUnits.
So the question becomes, did the SdKfz carry any troops besides the 75mm PaK 40 gun crew and the ammunition? It would also be interesting to find out how much ammunition they did carry.
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Post by Aleksandar on Mar 30, 2010 11:52:17 GMT 1
Hope this will help:
SdKfz 251/22(7.5cm PaK40)Mittlere Schutzenpanzerwagen Specifications: Ammo 75 mm 22 rounds Armament 75 mm Pak 40 L/46 Armor 6/15 mm Crew 4 Engine Maybach HL42TUKRM/6 cylinder /100hp Fuel Capacity 160 litres Height 1.75 m Length 5.98 m Range Road 300 km Cross Country 150 km Speed Road 50 km/h Cross Country 10 km/h Weight 8,000 kg Width 2.10 m
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Post by LouisXIV on Mar 31, 2010 11:48:58 GMT 1
I too assume the versions with the 75mm guns and the flamethrower - and the mortar - are probably carrying too much ammo to allow much room for humans. The 75mm L48 had a crew of 4, and since the vehicle only carried 12 at best, that doesn't leave much room for a squad without even considering the ammo. However, what about the 37mm version? Crew of two for the gun, I believe, and the same amount of ammo wouldn't take up 1/4 as much room. I think you could fit a full squad in one of those, but did they?
Oops, I hust read carefully through the statistics posted by Aleks above. It has one item I haven't noticed elsewhere: Ammo 75mm - 22 rounds. That's not a lot, when compared to a PzKw IV carrying about 80-90. So there might be room for a squad after all.
I wonder if that was HE or AP ammo or a mixture of both. Did they use it to support an attack or defend the troops from tank attack, or both?
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Post by LouisXIV on Apr 3, 2010 11:27:37 GMT 1
Then why put a 75mm PaK 40 in them? Why not leave them with the L24 75mm. It was still in production, I believe. I'm sure the AT gun could be better used elsewhere on its conventional mounting.
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Post by evillittlekenny on Apr 6, 2010 9:07:19 GMT 1
I have heard once that the Hanomag with the long barreled 75mm was really intended to kill tanks with it. Not to go really into the field like maybe a Jagdpanther oder Jagdpanzer IV or so, but to be able to ambush enemy tanks. A big problem of the Pak40 was that it was really heavy and therefor hard to move. So when it was discovered (for example after an ambush), it was a sitting duck. With the Hanomag, it could flee.
But I am always amazed, how many improvises stuff the Germans used. Or captured equipment. Off-topic, did you know that Germany used during the war up to 1.500 different vehicle types?
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Post by LouisXIV on Apr 6, 2010 11:28:04 GMT 1
Does that include captured equipment? I read that over 80% of the transport that Rommel was using in mid-1942 was captured (or stolen) equipment.
I think the Americans had them beat. After all, there were almost 1,500 variants of the Sherman.
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Post by evillittlekenny on Apr 6, 2010 11:37:17 GMT 1
Yep, includes stolen equipment. Since Germany invaded many parts of Europe, they used nearly all captured vehicles from this conquests. Later they used captured alliied vehicles or vehicles of former axis states, like Italy.
And I think the 1.500 includes only trucks and similar stuff. I read once in an excellent book about WW2 weapons, that this was the reason for the decision to focus on several types like the Opel Blitz in the production. Still, the other types remained in service until they were not usable.
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Post by LouisXIV on Apr 7, 2010 1:48:33 GMT 1
Which is why it really bothers me that the Germans in particular only have one type of truck available.
Then there's the British barn-on-wheels, which as SJ points out whas only used as an artillery tractor.
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